all right all right all right! so much for good intentions. not quite... It's easy to make serious mistakes in that situation. I agree with some of the others here that the solution probably lies in external contributions from wise members of the community. It's still a race. Ditto. A program exits when main exits. That's just an error I will fix. You could just drop the adjective. I recommend that you fix your code now and be ready for the next release. No. I accept the argument about regularity but not the one about utility. Every acme user around here uses the plan9port version. There is no general solution but we are aware of the desire. I'm not sure how that helps. It's clumsy, I know, although it could be (and will one day be) done a little better. I don't know what that means. But what are you really trying to do? I thought of a few ways but I refuse to write them down for fear people will use them. It may be that another approach altogether is better. Your assurances are incorrect. When I look at your code I see a lot of unnecessary repetition. Exactly. Yes. Poor choice. You went wrong at step 1. Interesting idea, though. if crypticness is the complaint, remember you're talking about a C compiler. Thought I'd post this to a DOOM group. There are no plans for a new release of Plan 9. there are no pastel paints in the dungeons and dragons world it's fitting that my first tweet had a typo. There's nothing in computing that can't be broken by another level of indirection. It's all happening. I prefer deskside computers over laptops because they're much harder to throw in frustration when dealing with incompetent web sites. I hear that C++0x is a substantially upgraded language. People get annoyed when they must write two lines of code instead of one, but I don't. It's called programming. localization (n.): the property that a program runs globally. Fixes welcome. The first lines of source code were added to Go in 1972. You can all relax. It's not my Mac Air's fault that the web is too damn slow. This discussion isn't pin-headed enough yet. The name Brazil was chosen because we wanted terminals with Fresnel lenses on goosenecks like the ones in the movie. I don't see what the fuss is about. when i was on sabbatical the university installed linux on the PC on my desk. Apologies for the inconvenience. Thanks. Legal terminology is not the best medium for subtlety, so I've asked our lawyers for clarification. Give us your address and we'll send Ken out to fix it. That's our technique. This won't work. Weekends are quiet, good for updating big software packages. Web access is very important. Web browsers are very useful. But if you stop there, you're missing a lot of opportunity. I'll send a fix in a while. Plan 9 is non-standard and proud of it. Perhaps I should explain better. Here's a short version: Avoid complexity. Why not? Mea culpa. Sorry, guys, but it's not quite a pure PC world, at least not yet. True again. This fixes your example, anyway. Ptys were old and obsolete the day they were invented. Kick back, relax. It's the information age. Speaking as the portraitist, I believe I captured the personality rather well. That's a little simplistic. You don't have a user program running when you're trying to boot the kernel. The last pieces of this design space have not been explored. Feel free to delete it. It's surprising what's surprising. You should delete some mail. Algorithms everywhere, and not a byte to send. This is idiocy. Yes, precisely. Difficult administration results in incorrect or inadequate installation. Use something distinctive. It's easy if you have the spec. Of course it does. I've been thinking of sending this information to 9fans for a while. I'm a little disturbed by these questions. This question has been answered. No, there is no solution. Other systems claim to have solutions but they are exaggerating. I was trying to tell you the way to do it. Awful. Not exactly. In this context, I don't feel it's ambiguous. By tradition, the return value of functions report what they did, not what they considered doing. Sigh. Whoops... Incomplete instructions. I would like to understand this. I would think mouse chords would be singularly ineffective on the Mac. Anyone willing to help? Don't be stupid. Unnecessary, anyway. Actually I mistyped. If it's just between you and your server, go for it. I'd really like someone to clean the mess up (hint, hint). Hell has nothing to do with it. False. I think you misrepresent the purpose of security. Its role is to prevent us getting work done. So the rule of security is the following: if you are able to work on something other than security, your system is insecure. Those days [of "one tool doing one job well"] are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl. I'll alert the media. Unix never says `please.' The secretaries don't understand me. Sometimes when you fill a vacuum, it still sucks. If you think awk is the perfect programming language for the problem, you don't understand the problem yet. There's no such thing as a simple cache bug. A great deal of agonizing and very little decisiveness went into resolving this issue Caches aren't architecture, they're just optimization. People admire complexity. Bite my shiny metal ass. iOS4.3 lets you decide whether the side switch is mute or rotate lock. Operating system innovations never cease. If you can't do something right, sometimes it's not worth doing at all. Once idea that comes to mind is to show us a reproducible example. The API has indeed changed. I suppose the documentation should mention this. I'm a radical here, but I think if a machine is paging, you've lost. So again, why? I guess I'm dim. In the good old days, copyright notices meant something. ouch It doesn't matter what the bug is, someone will depend on it. We're still working on it. Write less code. Would a Plan 9 user please provide an accurate status report of the state of the Go port to the system? I wasn't asking about 9front. Your "why bother?" question is a good one. Your question is answered by the FAQ entry. Hip hip hooray. Go gets mocked a lot. I am done here. What's jQuery? It's possible but not by writing a single line of code. Your "mathematically more correct" claim sounds fishy. This statement demonstrates a profound misunderstanding. I guess that wasn't very helpful. The proposed fix is perhaps not the best one. It's only an issue on mailing lists and discussion groups. Let me put in a word about the Apple wireless trackpad. Nothing. Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy. I assume that the reader is familiar with the UNIX tools. You missed a spot. This is Go. I didn't violate anything. I made a suggestion. At least in Go the behavior is well defined. What is the average length of time the phrase"Time remaining: Less than a minute" lingers on an Apple screen? acme is unobtainable at the moment. I don't understand what your issue is. It's so trivial it could be a few lines of shell script, unless I'm missing something. There is no such feature. Go is not C. I don't understand the bug report. The Go 1 compatibility promise holds us back. No. The "No" in "no changes" means no. Be very careful. You almost never need xargs. Actually I was hoping to stop at least my end of the dialog. I like to think of a function as a function. But that's just me. Ummm, don't do that? I say not now. I don't understand what you're saying here as a response to what I said. I defer to the experts. It's really not clear what the right long-term solution is. Why do by hand what a machine can do just as well or better? please don't ask; we're working on it I don't understand why you keep beating on this. It's nice to be in a position where people apologize because they assume there's humor in your work, based on past experience, but they're not sure where it is. all sounds fine to me. Oh man, do I miss my red Swiss mouse. Of course, this may change. The real answer lies in further research. please don't e-mail us. I just live with unaligned comments. Why should I? I sense a conspiracy. I leave it to you to find a way to correct the problem. We'll never agree. I suggest a different compromise: you do whatever you want, we ignore you. Deal? Read the manuals. I disagree. My toaster runs KRONOS. Why did Peter Weiner register plan9.com? Thank you for adding support to my position. I really appreciate it. The only document that claims Plan 9 runs in 4 megabytes is the FAQ on our home page. We are using other techniques now. What's wrong with forking processes? I know what versioning is, it's "vendoring" that I don't recognize as a term. Let's leave it at that. This conversation has run its course. Remember, the language is not the point here, it's the implementation. Nothing is worth spending a week with bureaucratic Germans. Caches are bugs waiting to happen. The hermeneutics of naming yields few insights. What difference does it make whether it's an "object-oriented language"? Why not just use a URL shortener? Remember this? three programmers go into a bar. the sam user is there because he's finished the day's work and wants to relax. the vi user is there because he's going to be working all night and needs a break. the emacs user is there because there's nothing else he can do: both his hands are in splints because of carpal tunnel syndrome. Oh yeah, great: eye tracking and mind reading. Certainly not. It's a terrible idea. First, check your errors. I second that! Ha ha. Let the machine do the work. I'm not going back in there. Advertisers. I'm not used to success. Not needed. 2106 is a long time from now. Why does this matter? Does anyone know of a version of sam for Windows that will run on 64-bit installations? Great, thanks. I used to be a physicist. Please file an issue at golang.org/issue/new There is no simple definition for what people want. One man's toy is another's real system, and every tool adds to the arsenal. There is no problem in computer science that cannot be solved by another JSON configuration file. Anything important enough to be in a dot-file is important enough not to be in a dot-file. Again, please read the blog post I cited. Experiment! Live and learn. Something else may happen one day. I don't know what the right answer is. If it's not worth doing well, it's not worth doing at all. Manual is wrong. The Plan 9 FAQ needs work. In another 24 years, programmers will learn how to use malloc. Use a tool. Please define 'trouble'. I just noticed that Glenda, the Plan 9 bunny, has a body the same shape as Tor Johnson's head. I must admit I find the fissiparous nature of the Open Source/FSF community a little dispiriting. Thanks for saying that. Is this a bug fix? I disagree with the premise. I speak from experience here. It's not how many features that matter, it's how the features interact. Just write the code. Looks like a bug. And now we have diverged so far from the original question that we can safely ignore it. I oversold due to fading memory. But I stand by the fundamental point. Although there may be specific examples where generated output is uninteresting, deciding whether to read code based entirely on whether a computer or a human wrote it doesn't seem a good general principle to me. Short answer: No. None of that is excusable, only true. File an issue? The documentation is clearly insufficient. You don't say anything about the problem beyond "it doesn't work". Can you be a little more specific please? Working as intended. That's a shame. Nothing has changed. Correct as written. Maybe badly written, but correct. Does it make a difference? One more thing. That's odd. Nothing in Go is accidental. Go was supposed to be a fresh start. Ken and I ported Plan 9 to the SPARC in 6 days over one fun Christmas break. I told the truth as I saw it. Wait, teletypes are finally gone so we need *pseudo* teletypes? I started complaining about this long ago and nobody cared then, either. It is very unlikely to change. Don't do that. This is just me speaking, not the Go team. Go doesn't have it. Even the simplest changes can be disruptive. Feels like the wrong solution to me. Copying source just leads to confusion. More discussion is required. What are you really trying to do? I wrote a book about this once; I recommend it. I just thought it would be nice. My recent incompetence is humbling. I should quit the industry. Three cheers for dropping things that are too complex. Great. This is one special case. This slippery slope is long and steep. I'd prefer not to take the first step. All that aside, the rule works very well in practice. dot dot dot Sounds nice. Yes. It is legal. At MIT the server is the unit of invention. Nothing is wrong here. Да! Noted. нет. THIS OPUS LACKS PERSPICACITY THIS INCHOATE EMISSION DOES NOT ADUMBRATE CONSUMMATION OK I'll stop now. Russ is prepping some words about what's happening. I will fix. Feature requests will be ignored. I would call that a bug. Feel free to file an issue. I really dislike knobs in APIs. ??? What's wrong with the obvious? I am dyspeptic. I do not. The Yacc grammar was translated by sam-powered hands. Turning off comments. This is unfortunate. NaN is unfortunate. No we can't. go away You misinterpreted my suggestion. Not a great situation, I admit. I do not understand your criticism. If you want to do the work, I will review the results. Now, this is one of the things where the guy who blogged about me being a world-class jackass missed the point. Please drop this. Maybe yes, maybe no. Please be respectful in this forum. It sounds reasonable and should be easy enough to implement. There is a widespread assumption that garbage collection and kernels cannot coexist but history shows a number of examples that demonstrate otherwise. Speaking as a one-time kernel writer, I would have loved to have garbage collection available inside the kernel. Hell, half the code in the kernel is tied to memory management. Thanks for the report. It takes precautions but there are no guarantees. What is the problem you are trying to solve? Please be civil. I think this would be a mistake. Go's interfaces were designed to solve particular problems. Go is not the product of a Whiggish development process. complexity is multiplicative i always intended to fix the problem; i never saw how. apologies. The choice cannot be explained, only understood. Indeed. i see no bug here. I support the idea of unrecorded talks. We do not accept patches Syntax highlighting is juvenile. Working as designed. I've written programs with twenty implementations of io.Reader inside. Who cares? Shut up. What is wrong with my analysis? I just want to explain something. I recommend in the strongest terms that you don't do this. Sockets are the X windows of IO interfaces. Ignore what I wrote. In other words, here's how to do it but don't do it. I did indeed. I don't understand what you mean by 'reset'. I am, and as far as I can tell it makes no difference whatsoever. Please put this silly objection to rest. It has no merit. Interpretations will vary. I think the pattern used well is perfectly acceptable in certain situations. Like everything that attracts scrutiny, the key point is to use the idea well: safely, clearly, correctly, and only when appropriate. I am not trying to be difficult, but you must understand it's not simple to address your question. One step at a time. Thanks for grinding through those. Hardware has stopped getting faster. Software has not stopped getting slower. Ah, right. I disagree. There is little meaningful difference between bad style and bad practice. It's come up before. Ah, nice. the woodpeckers are back. I recently got the idiotically named but otherwise very well designed, quiet, and comfortable Apple Magic Keyboard. It sounds like a mistake to me. What a lovely vacuous platitude. That is unhelpful. Reports of the death of Research are greatly exaggerated. There are already courses being taught in `feminist science' and the trend is sure to continue. Not quite. Please file an issue. I'm not convinced there is a "why" other than "that's what happens". Working as intended. Awwww. Sniff. The operation is not to copy but to snarf. It's called snarf because snarf is what it does. There is no design document. Automatically deciding what's important in a program's dependencies is not easy. Thanks Yes, one could, and that would be a stylistic decision. Best not to promote the bad idea. Nil means nothing. People often spend too much time worrying about the things that don't matter. Often the reason something was done is more important than what was done. I believe this is not a Go issue. Are you running Xcode 8.3? I don't think so. Yup. Code comments can be helpful with unusual situations like this. The key word is simple. If I could, I would disallow it altogether. I completely disagree. I say leave it alone. I wasn't speaking metaphorically. A nil map is like a regular map but it has nothing in it, cannot grow, and takes zero space. We live in a digital dark age. Neither of your issues is a problem. Your ideas may make people happy, which is not a small thing, but do they really help? What's this? https://plan9.io/ Consistency is a better explanation. Code can move. You might find blog.golang.org/constants helpful. Over time, everything gets better but also worse and always bigger and more complex. Nice to see Egreg again. It wasn't my intention. The Blit was nice. Sockets are just so unpleasant, and the endless nonsense around network configuration doubly so. Perhaps someone else can help. Thanks for reporting it. I told this anecdote in an internal talk at Google. You might have seen it then. Let me ask, because I'm genuinely curious: Why does it matter? I find this situation unsatisfactory. Critical code needs static typing.